Wallace & co. - what really happened?

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Stephen Dobson / Rab
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Wallace & co. - what really happened?

Postby Stephen Dobson / Rab » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:02 pm

Okay folks, I'm starting to get rather frustrated bouncing about the interweb, so I'm turning to you nice people for help.

It all started with trying to get my local gaming group away from sci-fi and fantasy and do some historical wargaming. I fancy doing late C13th and early C14th, you know, Eddy 1's little Celtic holidays. Anyway, I'm trying to get some decent info on equipment for the various participants, along with any recommended reading/websites listing combatants etc. I also would like to know what the deal was with plaid at the time - was it worn, if so what did it look like (I do already realise that Mel Gibson did not make an accurate documentary :roll: Did it look anything like the Highlanders shown here: http://www.ebobminiatures.com/products/rebellion.htm

So, I throw myself on your collective mercies.

Cheers,
Rab



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Alan_F
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Postby Alan_F » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:03 pm

Stephen, try here: http://www.gaddgedlar.com

In short, no they wouldn't have worn tartan plaids, that comes a long time after the period, in dress the Scots army would have been hard to distinguish from the Englisn, although there were those amongst the Scots sucha s Highlanders who would have been in the dress of the Gallowglass, a Scottish professional warrior caste (or the nearest thing to it!), but their dress would have been long shirt (about down to the shins), the large overtunic and they would be accompanied by men such as kern (arrow/throwing spear type troops) and spearmen.

Hope that helps. 8)


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Postby Phil the Grips » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:29 pm

Rabocles,

Pretty much any figure here will be accurate for what you want as basic soldiers and knights of both sides-
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collecti ... /index.asp
The later archer figures they do are about right too for bowmen.
Even been known to use them to inspire a reenactment kit or two in the past! :)


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http://www.blackboarswordsmanship.co.uk/

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Stephen Dobson / Rab
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Postby Stephen Dobson / Rab » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:15 pm

Cheers, both of you - that's pretty much exactly what I was after on the miniatures side of things 8)

However, I'm still floundering through pages of Google where all the sites take Braveheart as their primary source whenever I look for Rolls of knights etc who participated and on which side in various battles - any suggestions?

I'd like as historically accurate a game as possible if I'm going to do historical stuff (I've got to educate them properly, you see!) - despite my recurring plan for a CoDDS unit, complete with foot-knight proudly displaying his salmon arms :wink:

edit: Alan - nice site, some really useful info on there. I particularly like the essays and will be reading them once I've finished writing my Year 10 reports (bloody parents, wanting to know how their kids are getting on :evil: :roll: )
Last edited by Stephen Dobson / Rab on Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Postby zauberdachs » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:18 pm

Stephen Dobson / Rab wrote:Cheers, both of you - that's pretty much exactly what I was after on the miniatures side of things 8)

However, I'm still floundering through pages of Google where all the sites take Braveheart as their primary source whenever I look for Rolls of knights etc who participated and on which side in various battles - any suggestions?

I'd like as historically accurate a game as possible if I'm going to do historical stuff (I've got to educate them properly, you see!) - despite my recurring plan for a CoDDS unit, complete with foot-knight proudly displaying his salmon arms :wink:


PM me your address as I have a pile of books on the subject I've been trying to give away... ;)

Jenny says "Hi" as well.


Do not be loath, diligent reader, to winnow my chaff, and lay up the wheat in the storehouse of your memory. For truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true - Nennius, 8th century

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Postby David F » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:27 pm

If you're looking for heraldry, try the series of books by Pete Armstrong;-
Stirlng Bridge and Falkirk ISBN 1 902667 00 X, The siege of Caerlaverock Castle ISBN 1 902667 01 8, The Battle of Bannockburn ISBN 1 902667 02 6, Dupplin Moor ISBN 1 902667 03 4 and Otterburn ISBN 1 902667 04 2.
All by Lynda Armstrong Designs, Border Miniatures, Keswick.
Full colour lists of the heraldry and the styles of armour from the records of the time.


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If you don't believe as I do, I come round and burn a question mark in your lawn....

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Stephen Dobson / Rab
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Postby Stephen Dobson / Rab » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:44 pm

Ta David, I'll check them out.



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Postby guthrie » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:53 pm

I thought the Osprey boks had some information which might lead to period sources?



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Postby Nigel » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:42 pm

But be careful with the plates rab some are simply shite


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby Alan_F » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:42 pm

Stephen Dobson / Rab wrote:However, I'm still floundering through pages of Google where all the sites take Braveheart as their primary source whenever I look for Rolls of knights etc who participated and on which side in various battles - any suggestions?


It's worth bearing in mind the shifting allegiances of the time, for instance the Macdougalls who supported John Balliol against Edward I were against Robert the Bruce, also there were Scottish knights who took oaths of allegiance to the English crown under Edward I who later fought for Robert the Bruce.


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Stephen Dobson / Rab
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Postby Stephen Dobson / Rab » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:37 am

Nigel - plates in Osprey books? Or the Pete Armstrong ones?

Alan - I knew that the whole sworn-liege and personal emnity thing made precise us versus them tricky, so the info you give about the Macdougalls is exactly the sort of thing I meant by battle-specific rolls of arms. Wouldn't it be nice if someone (and not me, I don't have the time or expertise) had/would come up with a great big diagram with lines of allegiance etc on it. Any volunteers?

Guthrie - what have you and the other CoSM folks been using as sources for your 1300 stuff?



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Postby Nigel » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:58 am

Stephen Dobson / Rab wrote:Nigel - plates in Osprey books? Or the Pete Armstrong ones?

Alan - I knew that the whole sworn-liege and personal emnity thing made precise us versus them tricky, so the info you give about the Macdougalls is exactly the sort of thing I meant by battle-specific rolls of arms. Wouldn't it be nice if someone (and not me, I don't have the time or expertise) had/would come up with a great big diagram with lines of allegiance etc on it. Any volunteers?

Guthrie - what have you and the other CoSM folks been using as sources for your 1300 stuff?


the Opsreys studded Jacks yeah right

Have al ook at Old Glories specific figures well designed and correct spearmen in achetons etc and cheaper than foundry


There’s a country in Europe where they treat their ex soldiers with pride no waits for medical treatment after injuries received during service, no amensia from the government. Cant for the life of me recall where it is but I know exactly where it is not.

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Postby guthrie » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:12 pm

Stephen Dobson / Rab wrote:Guthrie - what have you and the other CoSM folks been using as sources for your 1300 stuff?

THe usual- Osprey books, and for civilian kit, the usual period manuscripts and MoL books etc. Basically anything from the period, the assumption is that we're lowlanders and therefore tied into the general Western culture. WEstern Isles people and Irish etc probably wore different clothing, but we'll be lowlanders/ English, depending on the necessity, so given the lack of evidence for anything at all in Scotland from this period, we're fine.



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Stephen Dobson / Rab
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Postby Stephen Dobson / Rab » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:55 pm

Nigel wrote:the Opsreys studded Jacks


:shock:

Nigel wrote:Have al ook at Old Glories specific figures well designed and correct spearmen in achetons etc and cheaper than foundry


Will do, ta! Although the minis I'm currently considering (barring the kilted woad wearers), are eBob's RebellionMiniatures.




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