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Housekeeping for re-enactors: 'Toffs go camping.....'
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| Sally Rat | Thu Jan 24 2002 14:48:46 |
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Comments from Tinker and Martyn (women in combat string) have struck an old chord: Living history camps look great: there's so much detail, research and care taken to make and acquire too much stuff. Have we all looted a noble's bridal train? Or just his Pickefordes' cart? If we really would have had it, how would we have moved it all around? (if we really were all living in camps). Or is this tented suburbia a necessary, educational, compromise? Authenticity v enthusiasm - where do we draw the line? |
| martyn | Thu Jan 24 2002 16:04:39 |
| i think alot would depend on status.we know from various sources how vast baggage trains were,the question i would ask is at what level of society would it be;a,possible to afford a waggon and;b,have that waggon taken along as personel property without having to empty most of your kit to make way for more nessesary items?.........(besides that if there were no women you could in theory leave 90%of your kit at home!!!!te hee) |
| David | Thu Jan 24 2002 18:16:34 |
| That's rich, Martyn, coming from a self confessed "soft kit addict" and owner of THE bed. |
| Tinker | Thu Jan 24 2002 20:55:17 |
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We take lots of kit for several reasons: 1. we like to be comfortable on gigs. 2. It looks great and the public like to see it. 3. We are magpies who love to make and collect new kit. 4. We don't have a hall or house to put on display so have to put our props under canvas. (And I am as guilty as anyone as you know - why else have we got five medieval tents for a family of two adults and two kids...) Historically... 1. Nobles were used to moving between holdings all of the time. The king processed but even lesser nobles would move from manorial holding to manorial holding. They were used to living from a suitcase as it were. 2. Many holdings were too small to accomodate an entire entourage. Household staff often camped or were billeted in a more ad hoc way whilst the liege lord got the best room in the house. 3. Mercenary companies and professional soldiers (e.g. the original White Company) etc were used to living in the field, were used to having servants etc and liked their comforts. 4. Look at illustrations of fairs and tournaments rather than armies in the field. You will see more tents and masses of gear. I think that we do not really portray the range of society effectively. We have far too many common soldiers in pavilions for example. Too many people are dressed as middle status with relatively high status camps but claim to be journeymen at their trade. Solution - create characters to suit your equipment or dumb down to suit your character... Golden rule - don't lie to the audience and say "of course a common soldier lived like this..." Mind you if you could get a jug of ale, a hot meal and a loaf of bread for thruppence (and earn sixpence a day as a soldier maybe you could afford it ---not) |
| martyn | Thu Jan 24 2002 22:47:47 |
| david,the bed is for miranda(honest),but your welcome to share(cold nights only)......by the way why a hedge?thats the last place i would sleep,wet,insects,vermin,etc. |
| Miranda | Thu Jan 24 2002 22:50:09 |
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Reply to Martyn. Give him another beer, and he might think about sleeping under a hedge, purely by accident though. I believe that he resents the burger wrappers one tends to find in ditches nowadays. |
| Sally Rat | Fri Jan 25 2002 11:11:39 |
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Of course I speak from dubiously high moral ground as we don't own a THE BED - but then, we don't have an open tent either......(if only to hide the children's mid-morning sausage-roll and squash orgies) I agree with Tinker about matching your kit to your assumed ID - but part of the problem really is that in the last couple of years there is so much more, and so much better kit, and so easily acquired: suddenly we have to become very self-disciplined, don't we? After all, there is a limit to what you can claim is loot (our double bell-ended wedge tent - which would probably have been claimed by a higher officer anyway) and what was inherited from wealthier connections (my gown as I doubt I would be able to dress in lovely, fulled scarlet) OK: The other problem of course is you need less domestic/trade kit in a combat company and more in a living history-focused group. And what about chests, then? How many can you fit on a mule? Should we aim to 'fit the packing' to one man's back - or a mule, or a very small cart? |
| Tinker | Fri Jan 25 2002 14:39:45 |
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I know what you mean about fitting the packing to the mule. We had to buy ourselves a Renault Master van for the 2001 season and ended up shifting 1-2 tons of kit for a gig! We have a minimum of five hardwood chests in the round pavillion for example. Historically however - if you can afford a pavillion the odds are you can afford servants and a cart. Remember that the average mileage completed by a mounted army (e.g. Henry in France) was 8-10 miles per day. The baggage was slowing them down immensely. (Compare this to the Roman footsoldiers marching 20+ miles per day including dropping camp and digging a fortress at the other end - puts it into perspective.) |
| martyn | Sat Jan 26 2002 07:56:13 |
| tink,sally,i used to have a book that specialised on the subject of baggage trains & the logistics of moving an army but i cant for the life of me remember the title.i cant find it in my collection either,so it was perhaps on loan,do you know the book im on about? |
| Scaley Rat | Sat Jan 26 2002 17:35:37 |
| No, dearest, do tell! |
| martyn | Sat Jan 26 2002 21:08:59 |
| Meeeeowww!!!!!!! |
| martyn | Sat Jan 26 2002 22:41:34 |
| have been looking for that damm book again...never mind,I seem to remember that it stated that EdwardIV army(Tewkesbury campaign)was still leaving London when the king was in windsor,IN FORMATION,thats a lot of carts with a lot of kit. |
| Martyn | Sat Feb 2 2002 18:01:08 |
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Sally, well, you finally got me off my back side and here we are in Bruges, doing some proper research! We even bought along the Vitner, and his wife, together with one of the grunts and his mistress to verify our findings. The bottom line is: camping for toffs is totally acceptable by the gospel according to Louis de Gruuthuse. Apparently so is letting off huge cannonades with complete disregard to those around you, but that is another story....... Wish you were here. The vitner recommends that all should have a cannon poking out of their tent, even if it means getting rid of THE BED to make room for it. The grunt would like to know WHAT IS A BED? (Just humour him) |
| Sally Rat | Mon Feb 4 2002 21:30:22 |
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How lovely, but what are you banging on about? I don't wish to know what you and the grunt and his mistress and the Vintner and his wife and your wife were up to on my birthday. I was very pissed in a large 'at and high heels, listening to the business practices of the Kinky Boot man at the Warwick Hilton at lUnchtime. I know this has nothing to do with the subject, but I am now elderly and have the right to be a cantankerous old bag. And one day we TOO will have a THE BED. We have a trailer..... And who says we haven't already got a cannon poking out of the tent? |
| joeri teeuwisse | Wed Feb 6 2002 12:33:17 |
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Hello all, As a 15th century campfollower I own only 1 kit, my rather common dress. I have something to eat from and drink out of. My only luxuary is a large linnen strawmatrasse...just a bag really I fill with straw if there is any... I usually sleep in one of the pavilions that still have some room for me. I help setting it up, I help cooking and cleaning and in exchange mylord (or any lord for that matter) lets me sleep in the tent. We are working on giving the tent 'rooms', you know those cloth walls you can put up. In those rooms we'll have the lords sleeping in their beds (lucky bastards) and the rest sleeping in the main room on the floor. However I am working on a very small tent for myself (and my doggie). It will be very simple, just a big piece of canvas draped over a rope or stick. I have been looking into evidence for small, simple tents on battlefields....another lovely subject to get stuck in... How would campfollowers and soldiers have slept? On a short battle in the summer you could sleep outside...but in winter? And on longer campaigns? Take over a barn? Would women huddle together? Joeri |
| martyn | Wed Feb 6 2002 20:52:43 |
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Troops abroad would take over complete towns singled out by their harbingers(out-riders & scouts)for the dubious pleasure of occupation, looting, brutality, etc,etc. During civil wars however,care had to be taken not to piss the tennents (of perhaps your own retainers)off too much. This led to big problems. Three examples: 1.Lords Pembroke & Devon fell out over accommodation prior to the battle of Edgecote. Devon withdrew in a fit of pique together with his 3000 archers! Pembroke was affectivly defeated by his Yorkist ally rather than Warwick his now Lancastrian adversary (1469). 2.Edward IV had to give up his chase of Warwick & Clarence as he had run out of supplies & realised he couldn't billet his men without laying waste to vast areas of Yorkshire & Derbyshire. Not good P.R.(1470)due to slowing down & discharging some of his retainers he lost his quarry. 3. Queen Margaret got over this problem by giving her army carte-blanche to loot and pillage Yorkist's held lands south of the river Trent during her march on London (1461 new calendar), the trouble was, by the time she had beaten the Yorkist army at Second St. Albans, the citizens of London refused her army admittance and most of her troops had had their fill of booty and had set off home. Richard Duke of Gloucester however, in 1483, seems to have grasp the nettle. During his coup in the spring of that year, he had his northern army camp outside London to avoid offending his political allies and the populas in general. These men were camped outside the city walls for some weeks. Therefore, I conclude that 'Camping for Toffs' is totally authentic for myself and all fellow Ricardians!!!!!!! Regards, Martyn |
| Simonticus Caesar | Mon Feb 18 2002 13:30:06 |
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Toffs? Does being a retainer in a Royal Household count as being a toff? In which case, Martin, I agree and think we're OK. Surely a household retinue would be well billeted, and the levy troops given free run of the hedges? |
| martyn | Mon Feb 18 2002 19:20:10 |
| Glad to hear you consider yourself well billeted.A second oppinion anyone? |
| J_Bug | Mon Apr 22 2002 18:27:13 |
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Hi all, I'm a graphic artist and I'm just looking to find some images of average wooden furniture in a medieval castle. Scottish preferably, something around the time of "Brave Heart" and not to flashy. Any good web sites would be helpful. Thanks in advance, --Jon |
| Mark Griffin | Sat May 4 2002 19:49:38 |
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Hi J bug you need to look at Medieval English Furniture by Dan Diehl and Mark Donnely, there are two vollumes. The names may not be spelled right but they also have a book out called Siege! Castles at War which is a companion to a Discovery Channel Documentary. Mark Griffin |
| SIMON AND ROB | Tue May 7 2002 19:36:20 |
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Dear chaps and chapettes, too finally settle this argument about are we toffs, of corse we are, speaking from experience, I portray, Richard duke of gloucester and simon portrays Edward the fourth, and believe me, we'd never leave home without the accutrements and assorted junk, that fall under the heading of authenticity, and believe me when you portray richard and edward, you wouldnt beleive the amount of !*+%$£ we have to shift, just for ourselves let alone the rest of the company at last count it was a transit,an astra and a xantia just with our kit in, |
| Ridiculous Ronnie | Wed May 8 2002 09:35:56 |
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Great joke Simon and Bob, killed myself laughing. I'm surprised you could fit Edward IV's or Dickie Crouchback's stuff into the vehicles you mention, what about the 30 waggons alone that Ed used for just his cloths of Arras when going to France? Or his Household retainers, about 3'000 strong? His sizeable artillery park? Mobile Court? Or do you have a Past Tents Cotton pavillion with a Past Times medieval chess set and a Past Caring bed with some nice seagrass matting? Look! Here comes one of the wealthiest men in Europe in his Xantia and Transit! Laughable. His Royal Maginificence Ronnie VIIXXCCIMMID, Pope to the Gentry (Have Vatican city in Luton Van, will do church fetes, no Holy War or Community based Charity event too small, Papal Bull a speciality) |
| John Howard | Wed May 8 2002 09:54:27 |
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I sympathise with Simon and Rob, I portray John Howard, Duke of Norfolk and need a large vehicle (Traffic) to pack all my stuff in. I found that the weight was too much for an ordinary car, especially after I had my string mail plated with gold and my horse was getting tired running along side all the time. Hys Grace Howard Duke of Norfolk |
| Lord Roos the Younger's Wife | Wed May 8 2002 21:06:06 |
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I sympathise with myself. Portaying the Roos Houshold, after I've packed his brain in a matchbox and his straight jacket in a Adidas bag, we make do with a Mini-Clubman. |
| George, Duke of Clarence | Thu May 9 2002 01:13:58 |
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its easy for me, I just turn up in my swimming shorts and a nice big wine barrel. I had that nice Oz Clark in my tun the other day. |
| lambert simnel | Mon May 13 2002 21:25:00 |
| since making up with Henry,I find it easier to leave my followers at home.That way Henry brings the kit & I get to sit in the kitchen all day. |
| Edward VI | Tue May 14 2002 22:38:24 |
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MY younger brother and I never go anywhere without our nice big comfortable bed and lots of soft fluffy Pillows. Uncle Dickie comes and reads us a lovely bedtime story every night although we are getting a bit bored about all the stories about King Herod. Time for some Harry Potter please Uncle! P.s. Did I see Uncle Dickie and the Ghost of our father Edward IV at Cressing Temple Barns market? What a finely arrayed encampment that was!!!! |
| richard iii | Wed May 15 2002 22:13:25 |
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HANDY TIP!-save room in your Citroen Xantia,a wok is not only ideal for knocking out a handy "after hours"snack,but when cleaned is ideal for ironing my shirt! Yes ,what a finely arrayed encampment-enough to make one weep |
| Duke of Buckingham | Wed May 15 2002 22:24:47 |
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I know, I know, I've been struggling with a lack of room myself, but found the perfect solution.... Murdered the kids, created loads more room (especially for my feather pillows) and threw suspicion on Richard, then downgraded to a Bedford C.F. long-wheel base. (by the way, amazing how Richard's followers still have difficulty in looking like a Royal Household on camp). Anyway, off to buy a buy a second hand Robin Reliant of a bloke called Morton. |
| Margaret of Anjou | Wed May 15 2002 22:30:27 |
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What's all this moaning about having to upgrade vehicles to be able to create a comfortable encampment. What's the problem? I just told my boys to pick up bits and pieces on the way, as they need them...... Maggie |
| BLACKBART | Wed May 15 2002 23:52:27 |
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Finely arreyed camp at cressing????? At least you got the part wight about making you weep. Who was the clown in the cheap velvet cloak.He gave us a good laugh on a cold day. |
| Wat Braynsell | Thu May 16 2002 09:13:25 |
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How dare ye slur the name of my fine camping sundries. I'll have ye know that the fine hanging which so prominantly displayed my Lord Edward's devices was a hand cradfted item, requiring the skins of many Acryls (a small creature from the Russias) and deftly sewn my my fair lady, Gwen 'stumpy finger' (she lost the other 9 in a terrible carrot chopping incident) Braynsell. The hanging had for many years graced the dining table of my mother, if it was good enough for her it must be good enough for Hys Grace. As for the 'clown' (i know not this worde) in the velvet suit, Dirty Mick down the market said it was the finest £4 12s 8d could buy (he taketh not groots or stuyviers) per metre. None of this £157 per metre proper silk velvet extravangance which of course looks so ostentatious and vain and does not shed water so well if one is caught out in the open. I did seem some in my ladies solar used as sun screens not a day past, most fine they did look. I'll have to stop now, I'm turning into Yoda. Man who writes silly annoymous things. p.s. at least the lot we are smirking about had some 15th century arms and armour, no matter how basic. The last time I encountered them one had a civil war back and breast with a hounslow hanger and a 'tabard' to cover it up. When asked about said things he just said 'the public don't know the difference'. This was a few years ago though, maybe he's got a bigger tabard by now. |
| Rat Scabies | Thu May 16 2002 11:33:39 |
| 15th Century?-I thought the bloke in leather trousers & leg harness was reenacting me in 1977 |
| Wat Braynesell | Thu May 16 2002 12:37:56 |
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oooooh I missed him! You're sure it wasn't cuir bouilli armour that had gone a bit soft in the damp air? 1977 eh, those were the days. I had a lions head door knocker nailed to my arp helmet, hehehehe. Mind you I saw the British Plate Armour society in about 1996 at Southend and one of their guys had a similar affair and someone else was wearing....wait for it.....carpet squares! Must go, corset is splitting. |
| wat braynsell | Thu May 16 2002 13:16:42 |
| wat braynesell | Thu May 16 2002 13:19:15 |
| Nigel Gant | Wed May 22 2002 23:55:05 |
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Fascinating reading! However, for those who prefer their pleasures in a more private setting............why not turn your unwanted garage into a 12 seater banqueting hall? How? E mail bacchus@livinghistory.co.uk |
| edward IV | Sat May 25 2002 11:46:11 |
| If I did that Id have nowhere to keep the Xantia |
| martyn | Thu Jun 6 2002 16:35:51 |
| nearing Tewkesbury time.I wonder what marvelous specimens will turn up this year.......... |
| Sally Rat | Fri Jun 7 2002 16:00:52 |
| I have been inspired to install a ten seat banqueting hall in my Zafira (I don't have a xantia, you see). NT are very interested, and may have formally adopted it by Tewkesbury , if unscuttled by a prior hostile bid from EH........... |
| martyn | Thu Jun 13 2002 21:12:11 |
| Smashing idea Sally!You get to drive the Zafira in to your unwanted garage on banqueting days for the festivities,leave it on the drive on other days thus avoiding de-valuing your property by the evil practice of installing polystyrene beams & crushed velvet drapes in the garage |
| Sally Rat | Mon Jul 15 2002 19:31:42 |
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Actually had to remove the poly beams from the Zafira and replace with treated oak - it's one of the failure points on the MOT (fire risk). David's going to install a solar in his Civic for my 40th . He's such a romantic bugger. Miranda mentioned you might be moating the works van next season......... |
| martyn | Mon Jul 15 2002 22:29:37 |
| Yes,Im also applying for a licence to crenulate the jag incase of gatecrashers |
| Tinker | Mon Jul 15 2002 22:30:51 |
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IMPORTANT SAFETY WARNING If Martin does a wet moat around the works van he will undoubtedly fall into it during one of his infamous drunken stupours and drown - who would I have to argue with then! NO NO and THRICE NO. (Oh alright then but make sure you have a life guard to keep EH happy!) PS Von Trouserkoff is perhaps the only man capable of filling the wet moat with recycled beer single handedly (or should that be another appendage?) |
| wat braynsell | Tue Jul 16 2002 08:43:25 |
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i went to tewkesbury (or tweeksburg' as a confused American once called it) and really enjoyed myself. By spraying my Ford Zephyr silver and fixing some broom handles around it I was able to take to the field as an entire bill block. Apologies to all those I wanged severly. I have some lost property as well. Would the owner of a badly made gauntlet with the words 'Deth 2 York' written in marker pen written on it please get in contact, it's got your hand in it. Unfortunately no-one in the market was using the Blackbird Leys cry of 'Good for any Period' (usually referring to German Para Boots/Gloves/chutes/tents ) so I had to stop and listen to the more usual Glouscester cry of 'Dream catchers, lovely fresh dream catchers, who will buy, who will buy?!' I presume the whole event is funded by the local health authority as part of care in the community? Yours aye, Wat |
| Nigel Gant | Tue Jul 16 2002 10:08:10 |
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I love this thread! Long may it continue! |
| Martyn | Wed Jul 17 2002 11:52:25 |
| I do hope you are not labeling me a soak Mr Naylor,we all know the drinking is all down to two people,Von Trouserkoff firstly & latterly Lord Roos the younger,I however will be quite safe near my moat. |
| Lady Roos | Wed Jul 17 2002 14:36:26 |
| Dear Mr. Naylor, may I please hasten to add that Lord Roose is in no danger of drowning in any moat, not as long as I'm around. He might have lost his marbles, but I, I'm still reasonably sane. May the good Lord award my efforts somehow when it's my time to knock on the pearly gates. |
| Kitty Le Roy | Thu Jul 18 2002 00:14:43 |
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Howdy! This has been quite fascinating. I have just started living history in authentic camps in southern UK, but as an old westerner (if you see what I mean)although I did consider Sealed Knot at one time but old west won out! I portray an unconventional gun totin' prospector and saloon owner and my pard's a quack. We've done two camps so far (I've been a westerner for years) and are getting into the swing of things with learning how to pack and cart the stuff around then set it up. We take two cars (greedy critters). I know for certain that we have too much stuff because gold fields were simple places, but, as you say, it's addictive ain't it? Yes siree. By the by, if anyone's interested in old west living history or the wild west in general, please contact me. Kitty Le Roy alias Jo Bennett British Westerners Association Hampshire Area Deputy www.kitty-le-roy.co.uk |
| Martyn | Thu Jul 18 2002 22:55:35 |
| Well clamp my jaw, Kitty, it's good to have you aboard. |
| Megan Ockas | Sat Jul 20 2002 16:29:32 |
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Well we have a THE BED, and a THE TABLE, and Two of THE CHILDREN well they're teenagers now so they drink too much beer and eat too much food. We're not greedy, we only have the one tent but the Ford Transit minibus with the back seats removed just ain't cuttin' the mustard any more. THE HUSBAND has gotten himself a big lump of tree to make into a wheel barrow and it will fill the van by itself! (WHEN he finishes constructing it and I STILL haven't got any pattens...) Pan-technican city here we come... Does anyone have a cheap to buy, cheap to run, cheap to maintain, cheap to insure, reliable, four plus seater vehicle that will carry THE BED, THE TABLE, THE CHILDREN, THE HUSBAND, THE CLOTHES, THE BEER, THE WHEELBARROW, THE TENT (including full length Burgundian Poles), THE POLE ARMS, THE BOWS, THE ARROWS and quite possibly THE KITCHEN SINK, THE FIRE RANGE etcetera, etcetera, etcetera... |
| Kitty-Le-Roy | Sat Jul 20 2002 22:18:13 |
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Well, Hi Martyn, thankyou for the welcome. I'ts funny because this is called 'Toffs Go Camping', because the majority - in fact all - of westerners encountered so far have been what you might call 'working class'. (God don't I sound ******?!) What I'm trying to say without sounding a real toff prat is that we come from a real middle class background, and the westerners I meet are nearly all untoff types with blue collar jobs. They're great and I love 'em! It strikes me that I might be a rare breed of UK woman with a 'posh' accent and ambitions galore, professional husband, naice house and kids, and I love donning me weapons and 'walking' the boardwalks to the saloon and authentic camping. Don't meet other women like me very often. They're mostly great, and mostly conventional frontier wives in bonnets and petticoats and don't have posh accents! Non westerner women of my age (48)are heavily into housekeeping and motherhood and many think I'm totally several sandwiches short of a picnic although my close mates love it! (Can't persuade them to do it tho! sulk). Kitty |
| Sally Rat | Sat Jul 27 2002 22:21:13 |
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Meg - you now need at THE TRAILER. Sounds like you need the trailer my husband bought. It has a ladder rack, tail gate,, wooden side, steel section framework and extension rails, beepers and claxons, lights on the wheels arches, loading stabilisers, jockey wheel, brake, Cavalier full size wheels and is 4'6" wide and over 6'long INTERNAL DIMENSIONS. You could run a group from the bloody thing. AND IT NEEDS NO ROAD TAX. Tows nicely behind a car, too. I have now bought us a trailer half the size, with a lid and roof bars. It will fit two and a half times inside the other trailer SIDEWAYS, stores the tent out of the house and will take all out kit and more too without so much room for it to slide around and damage itself in. Boys and their toys, eh? Yo, kitty - I have always wanted a cowhide hennin. New gown has black velvet bits - got any contacts for me (sadly, can't have skunk - suptuary laws of the period only allows that for the wives of city aldermen). I don't think you are mad. Working class frontier corsets and bonnets are far more fetching than the stuff I'm supposed to wear.......(I favour a longer non-workaday kirtle length so me nips don't show when I walk.) |
| Megan Ockas | Sat Aug 3 2002 12:24:02 |
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Sally, Why thank you for the kaind offer of your trailer, AI'm sure you will have need of the space now your extension is finished. Haowever, Living in the inner city, space is at a premium, I have more house for the size of my land than is strictly necessary but have insufficient land for a trailer. Do however let me know what your price is and perhaps I can arrange to pay David in kaind. PS When will I see you again? Kirby? We've not clapped eyes on each other for ages and you've not mailed m e in what seems like an eternity! |
| kitty Le Roy | Sat Aug 3 2002 21:17:40 |
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Hi Sally Rat - What's a hennin? Some item of clothing? Anyway, if youre on the internet you can look up countless sites with reference to cowhide, so start searching...... As to corsets and bonnets - wouldn't be seen dead in any of 'em! My character ditched (never adopted) either. Male styles of clothing on the whole for daywear, occasionally wearing calf length skirts and boots for evenings. I'm very much the unconventional female on the old west scene, not given to petticoats and dresses, and it's a kick to portray one. They did exist as I've got photos and articles to prove it. Kitty |
| wat braynsell | Sun Aug 4 2002 10:45:56 |
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a henin is a small furry creature not disimilar to a water vole. They were hunted to extinction by the late 16th century as their fur was much prized for undergarments. Wat |
| Sally Rat | Tue Aug 6 2002 21:11:03 |
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I shall have my people talk to yours Meggie-love. I should far rather swap my David (snr) for your David (Jnr)AND the THE BED. Not for sexual purposes, but I find the older they get, they slower they are with delivery of the morning tea and toast in bed. They claim to need time to sleep and wake up. Laziness I call it. And it just isn't the same in a tent - lilos don't have headboards to lean against......... |
| Edward de Bohun | Wed Aug 7 2002 21:45:23 |
| Count yourselves lucky! I've to attend Bannockburn this year, and I need to somehow pack a full surgical team into my Mini for the drive back down after Robert the Bruce has split my skull open! And do I get a day off work? Nope, not me |
| Shorty | Thu Aug 8 2002 16:58:49 |
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Being new to this game I'm still trying to work out why car boots aren't made to the width of a pole arm. This would make life so much simpler. Just glad I didn't buy the Smart car. That would fit me - my kirtle - ooops forgot the boyfriend, tent, armour...... I'm also worried, I no longer smell the fermenting armour stench in my car and had to be told it was still lingering nearly 2 weeks after Tweeksberg. (Have I got the re-enactor geneome and not just a sexually transmitted disease.) Shorty ps I am trying to resurrect the lesser spotted henin from DNA |
| Alan | Thu Aug 8 2002 17:05:07 |
| Shorty, do you mean the never bloody seen Henin, or the frequently spotted Heineken? |
| Sally Rat | Mon Aug 19 2002 10:03:47 |
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My credentials for suitably low status are now established. I categorically cannot be a toff wot goes camping. It has been pointed out that we now have so many trailers parked in out garden that it qualifies as a trailer park - so we are officially trailer-trash. Alas - I must strip the timbers from the Zafira and install wattle and daub instead........... |
| the Devilles' Dog | Thu Sep 26 2002 16:38:24 |
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Back to the subject of camping for toffs....My boyfriend and myself (don't be fooled by the name, I'm a girl..) at present enjoy a residence that may only be described as 'bijou'. To my knowledge, it's the smallest authentic tent I've seen on any field short of a linen teatowel stretched between two sticks. Anyway...my bloke is a Tinny and we drive a Nissan Micra so as you can imagine we have a bit of a luggage problem. However, we'd like to upgrade the tent and get a trailer or something (we'll work on the car thing later...). The thing is, is that we'd like to upgrade to something that reflects the status of our kit (he's a walking tin can and I've got a big frock!) Any advice? |
| Megan | Thu Sep 26 2002 16:48:06 |
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IF you are doing 15th Century, what you need is a pavilion or burgundian style tent. One you can stand up in and walk around in. Size depends on what you want. If there are just the two of you then a small burgundian (18' x 10'6") is a good size. The medium pavilion is probably a better size than the small pavilion but I don't actually know the dimensions. Check out Call to Arms for Past Tents (John Waterhouse) or Victor James (you know - he makes tents!) I have no idea what sort of prices they're charging these days. John's tents can come with sectioned poles and fit into a surprisingly small space for the amount of tent you get. I've never actually played with one of Vic's tents but there are quite a few out there now. There are probably other purveyors of fine (and not so fine) tents out there but I know them not. |
| Ratine | Fri Sep 27 2002 20:19:03 |
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I am a born again trailer owner. Buy one! You can pack it in advance (no more post work stuffing the car before departure) You can store the tent in it over the summer if it has a hard top. I love my trailer. I can now work towards an open tent without having to choose between packing the bench or the hellspawn. From shared advice and personal experience: make sure the she buys the trailer though. Hes'es tend to choose the QE2 and so you wreck your kit each time you corner as it rolls across the ballroom expanse inside. Another discovered important note: Re-enactors trailers must be able to fit through narrow castle gates. Choose a trailer that will fit the kit that you will buy later, but make sure you can sneak it into your closed tent after breakfast on miserable, wet Sundays, so you can part-pack in the dry. |
| Megan | Fri Sep 27 2002 20:33:02 |
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Given the choice between hellspawn and a bench give me the bench every time! Mind you Ratine, my hellspawn are nearly leaving home age you've a few years to go... |
| the Devilles' Dog | Sat Sep 28 2002 19:24:21 |
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Thanks for the advice, it has been well noted! Also Ratine, I didn't know how well you knew my bloke..we could happily rent the trailer out for weekend accomodation if he had his way. I've got my eye on a suitably tiny one, just not sure how our 998cc of sheer mayhem will cope. The sad thing is, is that it looks like it's going to be a burgundian....and a bench (no hellspawn yet!) |
| ratine | Sun Sep 29 2002 22:37:00 |
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How's about you rent my hellspawn and I get to use the tent? We were advised to start with a 4 x6 hard topped trailer from friends who started smaller and then bought the tent. They almost immediately had to go and get a larger trailer. We use our capacity as a mens of checking authenticity: assume being middle class so perhaps could afford a small cart, so it fits in the 4 x 6 and car boot or we can't add it (modern kit included). The main towing problem is weight of contents and wheel size. Weight, well you have to be disciplined - we put bulky sleeping stuff in to compensate for the tent weight etc. Wheels: present trailer has smallish wheels (which have safely done 80 on the continent, I am told) but which tip the trailer back slightly when hitched to the zahpira (which of course is a higher car). We were also advised by other friends who got a trailer for the tip-run to advertise for what you want in the local papers: many people buy and underuse trailers, so they had lots of offers at very affordable prices and could choose (you can acccessorise later, but I would say make sure you have a jockey wheel for level loading and parking and lockable hitch for extra security. Brakes nice, but not necessary - can stop you using it for the tip-run as here it qualifies the trailer as a commercial vehicle and £70 a tipping). |
| Ratine | Sun Sep 29 2002 22:39:26 |
| PPS - the She selected-trailer was quite easy to manouver by hand out of the exit mudbath at Kirby. I wouldn't even have conceived trying same thing with the He trailer. - bear this in mind! |
| Megan | Mon Sep 30 2002 10:57:29 |
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Or you could have my hellspawn - they're older than Ratines so they eat more - the plus is you might get rid of them sooner. Also the boy chops wood and the girl makes tea/coffee. |
| a5 | Tue Oct 15 2002 11:11:09 |
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caravan = trailer but with beds, fridge and cooker in it dry use tent during day - caravan at night! |
| Ratine | Tue Oct 15 2002 17:44:05 |
| Brilliant idea a5 - but most groups won't allow you to move the caravan into the authentic camp each evening so that you can keep an eye on the kids in bed and socialise. A tent is almost worth it...... |
| Megan | Tue Oct 15 2002 21:13:27 |
| Put the hell spawn in the caravan, lock it up, throw away the key and sleep in the tent anyway :) |
| ratine | Tue Oct 15 2002 23:17:20 |
| ...or leave the children in the tent, get ratted in camp, stagger off to the comforts of the caravan and the hot tea, shower, toilet and aspirin on tap in the morning and leave the camp to babysit............... |
| Dr. When | Wed Oct 16 2002 09:31:23 |
| Yes, Ratty. You know how well we look after your bratlets... tying them up & leaving them in foreigner's camps. |
| Ratine | Wed Oct 16 2002 23:25:58 |
| ...and what poor slavers you boys were - who had to go and bargain with the 'Swiss' to get a return? Not only did I get you the lissome Martine, but I nearly part exchanged big Richard for a pair of toyboys. You'd think I'd contributed enough by podding the merchandise in the first place...... |
| Lea | Wed Mar 26 2003 15:25:41 |
| if u have any info on this topic please i m me or email me at Lea217@aol.com. Thanx! |
| TheDeville'sDog | Thu Mar 27 2003 09:01:23 |
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At risk of sounding thick...which topic? Camping for re-enactment or bargaining with Swiss people for your children?
Camping I can probably help with...never had to do the other one though...still, there's time. |
Ratine 
| Sat Mar 29 2003 21:30:01 |
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...and it's much more interesting than setting up a tent. Educational too: the children learn maths (whether they'regoing for a decent price), interpersonal skills (marketing, negociation and then a rapid descent into commercial haggling) and languages (they know the word for'sold; in 'swiss' and Imperial Roman latin.
And you save a fortune on paying for school exchange visit fees, and they come back able to earn - having first earnt their manumission cost.... |
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Vermine de Vile
| Sun Mar 30 2003 20:57:40 |
| Heel, Scamp! |
| The Deville's Dog | Mon Mar 31 2003 01:05:26 |
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Plus they'll learn to make chocolate.
On the downside there's cuckoo clocks...but we'll get over that obstacle when we come to it.. |
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Lord High Everything Else
| Tue Apr 1 2003 22:38:43 |
| Clothing: Don't forget that there was a triving trade in friperies - recycled clothing. So your clothes might be better than your station - just add a few patches and fade the colours :) |
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