2012 Bosworth.......... April

[RICHARD.D46]

My latest incarnation

[Strickland]

TART!



Neil

[Zachos]

Is that riding boots I see? Where is your horse?

[sean raine]

in the stable coz hes shooting his crossbow or does he have to had special crossbow shooting boots to change into ?

[Zachos]

I've not seen any paintings of crossbowmen in riding boots unless they were actually on horseback. I'd be pleased to see some if you can show me any.

Barring that, the outfit looks tops.

[sean raine]

Seams to me why would a horseman on campaign carry a pair of special crossbow shooting boots to change into when his horse is tied to a tree while he gets a few sneaky shots off from behind a bush however I bow to your superior knowledge as a I have no pictorial evidence to support my outlandish theory

[Marcus Woodhouse]

I have to admit that your comment soes seem a little daft Zachos.
Would someone really change footwear in the midst of a campaign when they got off their horse.
I know it bugs you that people have riding boots, spurs etc and don't own or ride horses at events but as a portrayal it seems to make sense.
A lot of people would have ridden, some horses were cheap enough for anyone who could afford such a good qualilty crossbow and harness to own or hire.
I would like to see more horses at events, even though I don't like them, but "My horse is stabled" seems a good answer to a MOP.
When I get asked which tent is mine I either say all of them or that I am staying at the nearby castle, house, manor, priory etc that I have made sure is close enough to the event to be believable, as for my horse, I simply have to call and my man will bring it to me.

[Zachos]

Yes, I know it seems daft, and for skirmishes I'd agree, but even in images of battles I've not seen people wearing long boots to the thigh. It is an interesting thing, and it may be artists convention, but we certainly see more thigh lengths than we should. I'm not suggesting for a minute that people who don't ride shouldn't wear them, and I don't want to offend anyone. It's just they're a bit of a fashion in re-enactor circles, when in medieval times they were seen more like a seatbelt: only necessary when on the vehichle.

If people are aware that wearing them means that they've only just got off their horse then that's fine, but a lot of people that I've spoken to (and myself for a very long time), think of them as posh boots. This is probably due to their modern day price tag, and the fact that you do see posh people wearing them in paintings.

As for why someone would change their boots when they were about to go into battle? I have a theory about that too, but I'm typing this on my phone, so I'll go into that once I'm at a computer.

Zac

[edit]I'll put my thoughts in a new post, because I don't want to rip this off topic more than I have. [/edit]

[Marcus Woodhouse]

In actual images of battles and sieges you do indeed only see ankle high boots or shoes, regardless of status.
The fact that you can buy them for around the £100 mark if you know where to look does make them attractive as well.
I wonder how likely it was that many people would have had changes of footwear, and so having rode to fight would then fight in those riding boots.
I would not want to see thigh high riding boots becoming "medieval cavalrymans boots" as a re-enactorism the way falchions are "archers swords" in some groups.
When I stage "fashion shows" I do make the point that if someone is wearing riding boots it must mean that they, or their patron is rich enough to provide them with a mount which must be around somewhere.

[Colin Middleton]

There seems to be a presumption that because these are riding boots, that anyone riding would be wearing them. Isn't it more likley that they will be worn by people who ride enough to invest is such a substancial pair of (extra) boots (such as nobles who like to hunt, messengers, henchmen, etc.), while most people simply ride in their normal shoes?

Just as another random thought on this point, I wonder if such boots would be poorly made as they are a 'second pair' for a specialist use, to keep the cost down.

Marcus, Zachos, I agree, there are far too many riding boots around in re-enactment.

Sean, why would the crossbowman get off of his horse to shoot. You can run away much faster if you're already on the horse!

And finally (most importantly), Richard, looking good! Will we get a chance to hit you at Bostowth this August?

Best wishes

Colin

[Friesian]

Regarding riding boots, a lot of the images (look in Talhoffer for example) depict the rider with the boots rolled down, I think I'm the only one who wears them in this fashion (probably because it looks daft), but I quite like the 'S Express' look ! I only wear them at events where I'm riding, just as I don't wear jodpurs to go to the pictures in !...Each to their own lol ....Also, a couple of 15th c tapestries (Charles The Bold's tapestry depicting the murder of Ceaser for one) show points comming through the thigh of the hose to hold the boots up, don't recall any re-enactors doing this (?)........Why did they ride with them rolled down ? Well it may have been just a fashion thing or it could have been to preserve the look of the boot, the calves of mine are a totally different colour to the rest of the boot after being subjected to persistant contact with horse sweat

[Marcus Woodhouse]

I've seen riding boots pointed to something (I've not gone up and checked what) around the waist at events.

[cloudy-cola-corp]

even if you used a horse lots unless you where rich would you really have seen the extra cost of riding boots that wear out on the soles just as fast and are more impractical if you wanted to be doing general farm/cottage industry (blacksmiths, wheelwrights, ect) style work, as well as being more effort to clean, although they stop your trousers wearing down,
really have outweighed the cheapness of patching your hoes up when they had worn through a bit and then buying a new pair once they was more repair than original material?

by the way awesome kit I really like your padded jack and interesting that you've put your bevor inside your jack not on top.

[Colin Middleton]

Cloudy, I think that when we say 'use your horse a lot', we're talking about messengers and the like, people who travel for a living! They're not going to have time to spend smithing, because it's not their job.

[Friesian]

I've seen riding boots pointed to something (I've not gone up and checked what) around the waist at events.

Yep Marcus, a lot of re-enactors point them to a belt around the waist rather than to point holes in the side of the thigh of the hose as shown on the tapestries......Although this seems OK at first glance , (a) What holds them up when you need to belt a put a gown on over the doublet , (b), why would you be wearing your belt in the first place without your gown on & (c) The points would need adjusting when you were on the horse......Not saying the above can't be got over, its just not very practical compared with having point holes on the thigh or rolling them down

[Marcus Woodhouse]

Nope. I just meant that I have never gone up to them and lifted up their clothes to see what they had pointed it to.
When I started re-enactment desert boots with the tongue cut out was considered authentic and docker boots were passable as riding boots.
With all the other inaccuracies that abound in medieval re-enactment I'm just pleased to see someone wearing period shoes.

[Friesian]

Nope. I just meant that I have never gone up to them and lifted up their clothes to see what they had pointed it to.
When I started re-enactment desert boots with the tongue cut out was considered authentic and docker boots were passable as riding boots.
With all the other inaccuracies that abound in medieval re-enactment I'm just pleased to see someone wearing period shoes.

So wearing them authentic shoes in a questionable manner is slightly better than wearing desert boots correctly ?.......I kind of agree & disagree at the same time

[RICHARD.D46]

Only just logged on again since my pic was posted.............what a response..........he he he he........

I like my boots.....end of..... I have an imaginary horse,just out of shot.......actually I can ride rather well strangely enough,although I haven't been in the saddle in a while,I was just learning to jump when I 'packed in' so to speak.

I bought these as they were cheap......a mere 89 quid.......and seem reasonably accurate,I could be portraying a mounted chap.........and seeing as I won't be on the field this year it really doesn't matter.....I'm more into making things than getting damaged..........

I wear the bevor inside my jak (handmade by me) because I can just stuff it in and it doesn't need strapping in...............I wear it along with my helmet and jak all day,as when I'm at Bozzi...........which is every other weekend in summer,when it's not raining....I tend to stand in the gate to the arena/compound thingy.........it's just easier to take on and off that way when I'm chatting to MOPs and showing them my kit.......

I have a very nice couple of falchions too.......(relating to comment above somewhere)..........I agree with the comment that it's incorrect to refer to them as archers weapons..........in my case I have a rather modest inside leg so they're a god send.......

[RICHARD.D46]

PS..............I saw some one this weekend walking into the arena at Overstone..........supposed to be some sort of medieval type...........wearing DM type boots....

so.........by comparison........I think I'm pretty bullet proof really