spinning with spindles

[duster]

Can anyone help me?

I have spun on spindles, made of wood, i know that the whorls used to be stone many years ago and wondered if they were still made of stone in the medieval period. Also, would the standard, upright wheel have been in use?

Many thanks.

k

[Brother Ranulf]

Speaking for the 12th century, spindle whorls were made of a variety of materials including chalk (I have made an exact replica of one such using chalk from Dover Cliffs), lead, wood, copper alloy, pottery and various types of stone. An example found at Chester is of cow leg bone. It is interesting that in almost all contemporary depictions, however, spinning is being done without any weight on the spindle, which I am told is perfectly possible in some situations. The spindle itself was often made from the wood of the English spindle tree, which will not splinter or split in use (there are several of these trees in hedgerows within 250 yards of my door). Dogwood also makes very good spindles.

No upright spinning wheels at that time in history, not sure when they appeared but I guess its widespread use was post-medieval (modern era). Here is a 12th century Norman woman spinning without any weight on her spindle, taken from the Fecamp Psalter of around 1175. The distaff is an essential element of the process:

This is a clearer depiction from the English Hunterian or York Psalter of about the same period, again without a weight on the spindle and with the very prominent distaff:

[Sophia]

As someone who spins occasionally with a drop spindle and has many friends who do it seriously both in and out of LH contexts, i can explain the apparent lack of spindle whorl. One you have started building up a weight of wool on the spindle it is not absolutely necessary to have a whorl to obtain a decent rotation, the mass of thread on the spindle acts as a whorl.

I have particularly noticed this myself when spinning fine to very fine worsted type thread where a modern type drop spindle with a large heavy whorl is actually much harder to spin with. One of my favourite spindle whorls is a small lead disc about the size of polo I was given a couple of years ago at Kentwell (the sand mould was based on a polo mint I am told), others I have include soapstone, ceramic and other stones and I am eyeing up a lead free pewter C15th replica (will be interested to see how it handles).

[Brother Ranulf]

Thanks Sophia, that makes good sense - I was told that a whorl isn't needed for very fine threads such as silk. Since we do not have access to the same breeds of sheep today as they did at that time we can not know quite how the fleece behaved on the distaff and drop spindle - modern versions are naturally catering for modern wool.

[Sophia]

I am currently spinning Suffolk Tops which is a fairly old breed and it certainly spins better on my lead whorl than on an Ashford type spindle. i have had a similar experience with Norfolk Long Horn fleece from the Kentwell flock. Will find out what type of fleece was being combed with old fashioned english wool combs at Kentwell this summer and what it spun best on if you give me a while.

[sally]

Spinning wheels of the 'Great Wheel' type appear in Britain in the 14th century, You can see one in the Luttrell Psalter for example. Flyer weheels appear in eth later 15th I believe, and treadles at least a hundred years after that. I have a book somewhere wit eth exact dates, will try to dig it out

[duster]

thanks for the info most helpful , i have a flint whorl found in a ploughed field in berkshire and a stone one found in madron cornwall.

[kate/bob]

not exactly on topic, but can anyone point me in the direction of how to spin using a distaff? I can now spin functionally, if not beautifully, with a drop spindle, but haven't been able to find any distaff instructions that I believe look believable (I don't believe everything I find using google!).

[sally]

not exactly on topic, but can anyone point me in the direction of how to spin using a distaff? I can now spin functionally, if not beautifully, with a drop spindle, but haven't been able to find any distaff instructions that I believe look believable (I don't believe everything I find using google!).

What sort of distaff do you use and do you want to spin linen or wool? With wool, it can be as simple as just somewhere to stuff the amount of wool you plan to spin in that session, or you can predraft and wind the fibre round for faster actual spinning. Linen is a specific technique in its own right.
If you are going to be at Cosmeston for the August fair I can show you how I do it, I use a very simple forked stick distaff

[Sophia]

As far as I can work out distaffs seem to work best with tops which have been carded and then combed before loading on. I am not good at it and tend to simply wrap my sliver/roving around my wrist.

Essentially you take your carded wool and comb with cat combs so you get long fluffy strands/slivers, not too wide (you can set your width by hand or use a diz). This process helps to align all the fibres in roughly the one direction. If you have drum carded tops you can get away with simply splitting the roving to the length and width you want and loosening the fibres but it is not as good as combing it. Using a diz is supposed to help ensure that you spin consistent thread.

Then you coil the sliver/roving around your distaff and if you are mediaeval stick it in your belt and walk and spin. A distaff can be as simple as a straight length of unpeeled hazel wand - the bark helps hold the sliver/roving in place.

The best wool longer staple wool has traditional been combed and not carded in the pre-industrial era and was as I far as I have been told by more knowledgeable folks than myself used until well into the industrial area for spinning the yarn for the very best worsteds. It appears that the noil or leftover wool was then carded for spinning woollens.

I am assuming that there must be some form of mechanised combing that has been developed to continue the production of worsted though a friend who is a textile historian has mentioned that older (i.e. handspun) worsteds were harder in texture though I can't remember if this was just due to differences in fleece type or whether the hand combing affected this.

If you google "English Wool Combs" you will find a number of interesting entries and some picture of modern reproductions.

[paul bennett]

The distaffs I make are for spinning linen primarily, as a stick will do for wool, whereas linen needs a bit more structure to get things lined up:

http://www.sca.org.au/fibre/newsletters ... inning.php

http://www.medievalartandwoodcraft.com/ ... Small2.htm

[AgnesBrewster]

I have made a distaff (looks OK and holds the unspun wool). It's not very authentic if you remove the wool but looks right if you don't. I made it after looking at as many picture sources as possible. The Luttrell Psalter has lots of brilliant hints towards everyday items. I don't do re-enactments as such, more a yearly dressing up and talking to Year 7s in my school. I have things of the period (late 12th century) from ebay detectorists such as mediaeval money, and things in my little bag such as a bronze thimble, linen thread, a little lump of beeswax etc.
Luckily there are rushes growing at the school so I have talked about rushlights, tallow etc.
My costume is not hugely authentic (my felted overdress is not real wool!) but most of the teachers hire in costumes that wouldn't pass muster either as far as I'm concerned!
I'm delighted to find this forum and hope to make my yearly talk better with each year that passes gleaning information from here.

[Brother Ranulf]

Hi Agnes and you are most welcome to the forum. It sounds like you are bringing history alive for the children you visit, which must be something they will remember for a long time. It's a really valuable experience and I wish it had been done in my own school days (pre-Neolithic); the highlight of my history lessons was Mr Painter drawing terrible maps of Europe on the board.

If I can help with anything 12th century, please let me know.