Introducing the <Shift> key.

[lucy the tudor]

As a side issue, the SCA website is very useful for craft stuff, well laid out and well explained for beginners.
I haven't been to any of their events, but so far I see no reason to consider them at least equally valid, as regards furthering the cause of "Historical study through practical trial and error", to most other reenactment groups.

[Fox]

Sorry Guy.

It's one of the points I would have made in a longer reply to Captain Reech.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the SCA.

But it is often used as a short hand for "not historical"; in that sense the concept of creative anachronism makes that accurate.

IF you'd like a parallel I'm sure you're tired of people saying that the SCA is LARP. There's nothing wrong with LARP, but presumably you don't feel that's a fair comparrison.

In this case, ironically, I believe there is a good deal of creative interpretation of history, but I think it's also quite obvious that it is not an SCA event.

It's not the comparrison that causes offence, but the offence that was intended.
Also intending that comparrison as a jibe says something about the superior nature of the poster.

[GuyDeDinan]

As a side issue, the SCA website is very useful for craft stuff, well laid out and well explained for beginners.
I haven't been to any of their events, but so far I see no reason to consider them at least equally valid, as regards furthering the cause of "Historical study through practical trial and error", to most other reenactment groups.

Voila -
Compleat Anachronist - the SCA Journal on such matters - https://stockclerk.sca.org/ca.html?id=QbMMpQnB

Atlantia (not the battlestar) arts and sciences - http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/

Couple other sites -
http://www.florilegium.org/
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html


I'm sure of others out there, but short on time and Before Coffee here.

[Skevmeister]

Grrrr. I have had to make a post. I don't like this anymous criticism. Then followed by the whining like a Derby County fan when their given a drubbing.

Gawd luv a duck - after all that Skev - it's "the're" not their - ha.

Yes OK !!! the drubbing doesn't belong to them, but they whine like it after receiving a drubbing !!!

Bloody hell.

[Skevmeister]

And also you want to visit that lardsatter womans website

http://www.lardsatter.com

Karen, is just the font of resources for references. I think this is the point, it is this supposed high handedness of people, when it comes to re-enactment.

ITS ALL DRESSING UP

And some of us want to do it to greater or lesser degrees and NOBODY, NOBODY has the right to criticise.

And I means lets face it, you could pop shots at SCA, EMA, The Fed..... We go round this c

[Martin]

quote from Dave B that put it into perspecive for me " I like dressing up and playing soldiers "

[gregory23b]

"NOBODY, NOBODY has the right to criticise."

As a consumer, of say a product or a service, we have an absolute right to criticise the item, or the way in which it is delivered.

Why are we in no position to criticise? we are after all consumers or partners in the whole deal, of all the people that should have rights to criticise, it is us. We sure as hell get criticised by the agencies that hire us and by the public that watch us.

Apart from that, everything in the public domain is up for criticism, if you don't want it, don't publish it.

There is nothing wrong with criticism, but there is with rudeness. Without being pedantic, I would not want to confuse criticism with ridicule or insult.


Fox

How can you judge someone's (unstated) intent in a post? Your response to the 'Hmmm ok ' was based on your interpretation of the intent.

[Fox]

How can you judge someone's (unstated) intent in a post? Your response to the 'Hmmm ok ' was based on your interpretation of the intent.

I think, on balance, the first post is intended to be rude.
I think most people would (and indeed did) read it that way.
I think I was more reasonable than most by answering in a manner that allowed for this not being the intention; not least because, rude or not, I thought there was something to explain.
Even if rudeness was intended, I turned the other cheek.

However, I find it difficult to find another meaning for the second post when taken in combination with the first post. Regardless, I did take offence; not because it mattered what he was trying to say, but because I believed he was trying to take the micturate.

How often should I give someone the benefit of the doubt without any sort of response?

If offence was not intended then had he taken even a few more moments to express himself clearly then ambiguity would not have existed, offence might not have been taken.


I confess, I am suprised by the level of response to my barb in return. It seemed such a small thing.
I know that almost everyone who posts on here has the capability to use capital letters and fullstops correctly; it's a level of basic literacy that I know is several steps behind the level of the content expressed.
And yet, people get very roused when you point out their absence; I have no idea why it raises such ire.

If he intended me less offense than I took, then I certainly intended him less than he took.
Perhaps it's just a storm in a tea cup.

[gregory23b]

It is a judgement call, no doubt about that.

[Sur of Dunholm]

I think the primary issue here, and cause of the misjudgement, on both parts and admittedly mine to a certain extent, is the lack of insight or knowledge of the individual concerned on a personal basis.

I know for example, as would most that know him, that Oakenshield is ‘chewing at the bit to ‘ to take part in a SCA event but alas the most local group is based in York (some distance away from Consett). So, I know, not think, Oakenshield intended no offence from his first statement. I know also, being from the North east myself, a Consett ‘Hmmm’ could mean a hundred things, depending on the situation; if you had ever interacted with Oakenshield on a personal level, then you would know what I mean. That Hmmm sounded more like an unbridled urge to take part in a SCA event to me!

Foxy, there are individuals on this forum who you probably know well, and vica versa. Sparring with someone you know on this site is invariably tongue in cheek much of the time and nobody, including those not involved, becomes offended; this becomes more difficult when the sparring opponent is unknown on a personal level, especially when someone writes as the speak i.e. using some colloquialisms, as I know Oakenshield invariably does.

When you counteracted what you perceived to be a second go at assault with an attack, which I also perceived, knowing Oakenshield, to be an unprovoked attack, I was not at all surprised at his response. I am not saying his response was right, only understandable.

This probably won’t exactly clear things up but will perhaps make things a little clearer.

Stuart Findlay, 48, lives in Newton Aycliffe, wife, 2 kids, manages a supported living scheme for adults with learning difficulties/mental health/challenging behaviour, member of 'The Vikings' and 'Rosa Mundi' (Re-enactment is sometimes ike a busman's holiday), further information provided upon request.

[Fox]

I'd very much like to think the best of people.

If that explanation is correct, then I owe Oakenshield an apology

If he wants to post on here, or contact me more privately, and explain what he meant to say, then I will give him that apology, both publically and personally.

I won't try to wriggle out of what I said; it was not banter, it was intended to be rude.
I'm suprised it was taken to be that rude, but then it's odd what pushes peoples buttons.
(It turns out I'm more offended by badly presented insults; who knew? )

But if there has been an error, I will, unreservedly, withdraw my remarks.

[GuyDeDinan]

Hi Sur,
alas it is true our coverage is somewhat haphazard. All I can reccomend for Oakenshield (and indeed anyone else not in range of our groupings) is keep an eye out for the major events, such as our Raglan week and other weekend events at such places as Barley Hall, York, St Cross, Winchester, Tretower and Caerphilly in Wales, or up in Scotland.

[Karen Larsdatter]

And also you want to visit that lardsatter womans website

http://www.lardsatter.com

Karen, is just the font of resources for references. I think this is the point, it is this supposed high handedness of people, when it comes to re-enactment/

Actually, not to be all critical or anything, and I do appreciate your kind words, of course but it's www.larsdatter.com -- there's a bit of a typo in the URL above

Actually, I find this whole thread to be fairly amusing ...

Compleat Anachronist - the SCA Journal on such matters - https://stockclerk.sca.org/ca.html?id=QbMMpQnB

Atlantia (not the battlestar) arts and sciences - http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/

I served as editor of The Compleat Anachronist a few years ago, and wrote an issue, too. (Quick -- guess which one?)

I'm an admin for http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks also, and I've been maintaining moas.atlantia.sca.org off and on for about the past 12 years or so.


I think there are a lot of regional differences between the SCA as it's done over here, and how it's done in other parts of the U.S., or Australia, or England, or whatever. For various reasons, both geographic and demographic, the SCA in my area tends to have a lot of people doing quite spiffy and/or historically accurate work; these people are often seen as role models, and others learn from them (in addition to websites, we frequently hold events with hands-on classes and workshops), and they end up adding to the overall pool of knowledge, rather than just copying whatever someone else did.

(Those geographic & demographic reasons have also led to a lot of people in locally-based living history groups outside the SCA to come and try the SCA, too, and they've found it to be a lot of fun, and have stuck around. And then they get seen as people who do nifty stuff, and other people want to learn from them, so it becomes a good learning experience for the SCA members, and I suspect it sometimes develops into a recruitment tool for the living history groups, too.)

And if I saw a photo of a big battle with a lot of different periods & styles of armor on the field, I'd probably wonder if it was SCA, too -- not in a derogatory way, but because I know from experience that SCA battles tend to look that way -- a guy in plate armor down to his shiny sabotons, next to a guy in a scuffed-up coat of plates, next to a guy in a laced-up set of Japanese armor, next to a new guy in a second-hand helmet and mismatched gauntlet, whatever. As an organization, all we really demand out of participants is a reasonable attempt at pre-17th century clothing (and armor); it's totally okay to low-bar that "reasonable attempt," but those who pursue goals of a higher standard are rewarded for their work, in the long run.

There's a tendency towards "dabbling" by folks in the SCA -- instead of getting really good at making (and understanding) a particular thing, or a particular time period, or whatever, people are encouraged to try a whole lot of unrelated things. This can also bring down the overall standards -- rather than focusing, you get people who do one thing once, and then move on to a whole different project. I do try to encourage people to specialize instead of just dabbling; it's okay to find something you enjoy, and pursue that, and learn how to do it really well, and learn as much as you can about the history (or materials, or techniques) behind it. It's okay to focus. Medieval craftsmen specialized, you know? It's totally okay. You don't have to cook and calligraph and do fifty things adequately. If what you like doing is puzzling out period recipes, it's okay to just do that.

Well, sounds like my little boy is up from his nap, and I think this posting has gotten long enough. So, long story short, I'm not offended by the original post, I'm flattered by your comments above -- and by the way, larsdatter.com is on Facebook now, so go to http://www.facebook.com/linkspages to become a fan! -- and really, if you get a chance, I hope you have the opportunity to become involved in the SCA out there, but if you're visiting this area and you'd like to check out the SCA out here (and possibly meet some of the other famous local SCAdians whose work you've admired online) just let me know when you'll be visiting the DC area, and I'll be happy to tell you about the events planned around that time.

[Foxe]

I have a fairly simple and, so far, effective way of dealing with posts written in headache-inducing txt spk. I simply ignore them. If the poster can't be bothered to write in a reasonably simple to understand way then why should I be bothered to read their opinion (much what t'other Fox said)? If you wish me to take any notice of your opinion, then present it to me in a way that does not tax me to comprehend.

And am I really the only person that's going to pick up on this?

and, importantly, to use, but not misuse, apostrophes.

Anything else is a form of selfishness that says: my time is more important than your's.

D'you know what I really hate though (apart from the misuse of aposthrophes)? Really bad "pyrate" speak. It's even harder to understand sometimes than txt spk, and people do it deliberately!

[Jackie Phillips]

that lardsatter womans website http://www.lardsatter.com/

...it's http://www.larsdatter.com -- there's a bit of a typo in the URL above

Oh that's awful - Skev, how could you not notice what you'd actually written; poor Karen, how horribly unflattering.

[Fox]

And am I really the only person that's going to pick up on this?

Possibly because the paragraph started like this:

I'm certainly not perfect. I'm very slightly dyslexic

and suggested making an effort to get it right, rather than actually doing so on every occasion.



Or perhaps it's because no-one else knows that you don't need an apostrophe in personal possessive pronouns.

[Foxe]

Please don't misunderstand oh Usurper of My Name, I agree with everything you've said. Natural spelling and punctuation errors are, well, natural. It just tiskled me that in three pages of thread nobody had noticed an apostrophe error in the sentence following your mention of apostrophe misuse

[Fox]

And am I really the only person that's going to pick up on this?

In summary: Yes. You're the only person that noticed.

[Foxe]

Do I get a badge?

[Teagirl]

And am I really the only person that's going to pick up on this?

In summary: Yes. You're the only person that noticed.

No, but I didn't want to interrupt the flow of the thread. After all, one apostrophe does not a headache make. A series of them in the wrong place does, though.

[The Iron Dwarf]

I have nothing against the SCA, they do as they want and enjoy it and others are involved in LARP, SCI Fi or anything else and im ok with that.

Karen Larsdatter's site is a great resource for many people and I personally would like to say thanks for the help you have given people here and on the AA ( and probably lots of other place I dont know about ).

as to the SCA helping people to try lots of things I am involved in a event here that is nothing to do with the SCA but more with the sort of reenactment this forum is connected with where we try to share knowledge and give people a chance to learn something new and in april this year we had an SCA presence there to show what they do, I believe some were interested in going to SCA events due to this.
the event here ( of which I am not an organiser but just do a small part of ) is the history boot camp, I took a forge and helped a few try their hand at it.
I am all for swapping ideas and experiences and helping others ( and in my case it also is good for sales )

Im not great at spelling and grammar either but I try unlike some

[Skevmeister]

Actually, not to be all critical or anything, and I do appreciate your kind words, of course but it's http://www.larsdatter.com -- there's a bit of a typo in the URL above

Sorry Karen. That is my head being up my ass again. I was thinking about three things at once and I swear that it looked right to me, even after you comment I had to look at it three times, to see what I had wrong.

Alixx

[Fox]

I'd very much like to think the best of people.
....
But if there has been an error, I will, unreservedly, withdraw my remarks.

Well, that is a shame.

I did hope that Sean [Oakenshield] would come back and tell me I was mistaken and what he really meant.

But time has passed and I don't suppose we'll hear from him now.

[sean raine]

greetings fox its nice to be missed i have indeed returned after a cooling off period so that i could a least be a little civil. the answer to your question is simple "hmmm ok " was simply ment as ok thats fine. and nothing more no hidden meaning that was down to you. although why you think i have to explain myself to you is a mystery to me are you a headmaster or something? however i would like to say if i caused offence to the members of ema or the sca there was none intended and sorry as sur of dunholm posted i think the sca is ace and had there been a group near me i wouldnt hesitate to join. anyhoo time for my tea
sean raine
consett
codurham
any further details can be asked for in a pm

[GuyDeDinan]

None taken at my end! Sorry we've not got a group closer than York for you, hopefully one of the main events might tickle your fancy - e.g. Raglan camp is a 5 day event. We are fairly mobile, so hopefully something will come along.

[Fox]

the answer to your question is simple "hmmm ok " was simply ment as ok thats fine. and nothing more no hidden meaning that was down to you.

Then I still don't understand the wink, but I'll take responsibility for taking a different meaning from it.
Regional differences perhaps?

although why you think i have to explain myself to you is a mystery to me

There's was no obligation of any sort.

However, by doing so, it does allow me the opportunity to say that I'm sorry if my responses caused any offense, and particularly the scale of offense apparently caused; it was, apparently, undeserved.

[hobbitomm]

Bumping this from ancient history:

Guy wasn't entirely right back in 2010 that there was no group closer than York, since the north end of Pont Alarch (the 'North' group) was in Durham.

We've now split it a bit more down, so Consett would be within the Shire of Depedene under Wychwood, which runs the fighter practice in Lancaster, but also one in Durham (at the University).

I'm into historical rapier (using blunted weapons), but others are doing heavy.

Tom

[Martin]

learn to use predicitive text

isnt predictive text for the ubber ubber lazy ?

[Medicus Matt]

learn to use predicitive text

isnt predictive text for the ubber ubber lazy ?

It might have helped you to come up with 'Über' rather than 'ubber'.

[Martin]

it might have helped even more had I read the date of Fox's first post lol, it was only after roughly scanning it that I realised I'd posted on it, back in 2010