Making medieval shoes

[Lonestan]

I've posted on this forum previously about klompen and pampooties/rivelins/etc - well, I bit the bullet and made the boys some turnshoes for the last season. They were a very soft leather, and I glued some shaped sole leather to the bottom. They survived, but the wet weather at Tatton meant we had to re-glue the soles on. On the whole it worked, but I'm determined to do a better job next time round.
Alice the Huswyf had recommended the booklet on making shoes - I've sourced this now. My question is now this: people who've had a go at turnshoes in the past - did you do anything as technical as make a last first? Bearing in mind that these shoes will be worn by small boys who will inconventiently continue to grow both in- and out-of season, a last like this would only be used once then ditched. I woulld welcome suggestions on this - particularly from previous experience on this.

[Captain Reech]

I've made a few pairs of basic turnshoes, largely for the same reason (boy's who have feet that seem to grow as you watch them!). Never needed a last for a turnshoe, it wouldn't really help. I've never glued them, simply stitched with heavy linen cobblers thread. The most difficult bit is turning the toes, even using a softening product such as neatsfoot oil I find myself frequently resort to teeth, hammer, pointy stick and bad language to get it to completely turn.

http://historiclife.com/pdf/Shoemaking.pdf

The above website has some useful tips.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisand ... ction.html

This 1st one is a good basic shoe, I don't always bother with the stiffener if it's for a child who'll probably grow before the next outing. The second one is also good, it's meant for a child but I've made similar ones for new/trial members of various groups and, with some practice, the shoes usually last a whole season allowing some time to save up for a decent pair.

[Brother Ranulf]

I have made a couple of pairs of turnshoes, but only for my own feet (which are always fairly close at hand!) so no last was needed - if I were to make a pair for someone else I would expect access to their feet throughout the process. I have no faith in glues, even today's super-duper wonderglues, so heavy duty linen thread, a stout needle and pliers did the trick. Saddle stitch is the best since it locks each stitch in place. Like the good Captain the hard part for me was turning them afterwards and like him I used a length of wood and some resounding Old English to get the things to turn fully right side out.

My shoes suffer from considerable thinning of the sole at the heel, to the point where the stitches are constantly being worn through and needing replacing.

[Captain Reech]

1 thing I forgot, I use pure Neatsfoot oil (not Neatsfoot oil compound). The compound product can contain mineral oil which causes linen thread to rot very quickly (as do the mineral oils in modern shoe polish) If you want to keep the shoes more waterproof you can rub them with pure beeswax (especially along the seams) This can lead to some discolouration of footed hose, especially on very warm days, the neatsfoot oil will give you a fairly waterproof shoe on its own and you can re-apply it to keep the leather supple when the shoes go stiff after drying out.

[Medicus Matt]

Beeswax on it's own can crack and drop out unless you're going to heat it up before applying it (in which case you end up cur boulliing them, which isn't a brilliant idea).
Take a look at this thread for waterproofing tips:-
http://livinghistory.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22068&p=297612&hilit=beeswax+oil#p297612

I wouldn't bother making a last for turnshoes. If you really want a cheap. easy sized to fit pattern to follow, use the 'sock/gaffa tape' option.

[Captain Reech]

Good point, it's probably the mix of wax and neatsfoot oil that keeps mine from cracking, I've never used one without the other so apologies for not thinking of that!

[Lonestan]

Thanks for this info, everyone. Although I feel the thread has been cuba'd a bit on care for shoes, it's all good information!
Captain, thanks for that historic life web address - that looks like it will be a godsend!!

[Lonestan]

Now then, I've got two pairs of turnshoes made (hurrah!), following the instructions from the booklet (see below). I did as instructed and soaked the finished shoe overnight to soften, and then went mental with wooden spatulas and a fair amount of swearing to turn them. I have seen since, however, that you only want to soak them for a few minutes or you lose some of the dye, and people advocating neatsfoot oil to soften the leather first. Is there a right answer here - I do now have two good(ish)-looking pairs of turnshoes turned out - the colour has faded a bit (which the boys certainly won't care about!) - but if I only soaked them for 3-4 minutes I'd end up throwing them over the fence with a curse (I can't imagine they'd *ever* turn if soaked for that short a time).
Any advice, please (more looking to the future than for now - the shoes are already finsihed!)

[Pelican]

Lonestan - could I ask which book you're working from please? I've seen the Petty Chapman (I think) book about making your own medieval shoes, is it that one?

It's something that fascinates me (OK OK, shoes in general fascinate me!) and I know I already have enough on my hands with costuming, but it's still something I'd love to have a go at, just for fun.

[Lonestan]

Its a booklet by Dave Rushworth - Alice the Huswyf pointed me at it. I found the booklet [quote][/quote]on amazon. I had to have a bit of a play to get the pattern to work, but I'm now onto my third pair of shoes in as many weeks

[Pelican]

Ah yes I know the one, I might keep an eye out for it at TORM...

[Lonestan]

Apparently 'Shoes and Pattens: Finds from Medieval Excavations in London' by Grew, de Neergaard and Mitford is a good book, but I've not bought it yet (amazon is awaiting my credit card).

[Colin Middleton]

That's an excellent book for background and shape of shoes but it'll tell you nothing about how to make them.

You do need to get them thoroughly wet to turn them. If you're worried about the colour, dye them after they are turned. If you can get a stick into the toe and bear down on it, I found that the best way to turn them.

I wouldn't bother with a last at this stage, you can make turn shoes fine without one. The advantage of a last (as I understand it) is that you can get the leather streached over it before you start sewing and this stops them streaching much with wear. That means that you can get a better shape, which stays.

Best of luck.

[Captain Reech]

and a fair amount of swearing to turn them.

Congratulations, you're doing it right!